The Saints in Exile: Mike Geo's Faith Journey EP.

When life, faith, and music collide, the result can be both beautiful and challenging. In this deeply personal conversation, musician Mike Geo opens up about his 20-year journey through the music industry and his parallel spiritual evolution from cultural Catholicism to finding a more personal Protestant faith.

Growing up in an Italian-American family in New York, Mike's earliest musical memories involve playing Beatles songs on a plastic guitar—a passion that would eventually lead him to form the band Saints in Exile. He candidly shares how the band walks an interesting line, creating music with Christian themes that isn't overtly "worship" but can still reach listeners who might otherwise avoid faith-based content.

The heart of this conversation explores Mike's 2020 spiritual awakening, which he colorfully describes as "the year I got smacked in the face by Jesus." Through Bible study and apologetics, he found himself questioning aspects of his Catholic upbringing and embracing a grace-through-faith perspective that transformed his relationship with God. This shift wasn't without complications—from family traditions to online criticism when he baptized his daughter in the Catholic church.

Perhaps most moving is Mike's vulnerability about personal trials, including his daughter's health challenges and a devastating series of losses in 2022 that inspired his controversial song "Be Refined." The lyric "sometimes church can feel so phony, like if you're not happy, you're not holy" resonated with many while creating friction with church leadership—highlighting the complicated relationship many believers have with religious institutions.

Whether you're a music lover, someone questioning your faith background, or simply appreciate authentic stories of personal growth, this conversation offers valuable insights about finding your own path while remaining open to where God leads. As Mike puts it, "If you had a failure in church, it does not reflect God and what He wants from you."

Chapters

• 0:00 Episode Introduction
• 4:36 Mike's Italian Heritage and Background
• 10:37 20 Years of Making Music
• 21:01 Saints in Exile Band Formation
• 29:54 Mike's Faith Journey from Catholic Roots
• 42:22 Family, Parenthood, and Personal Challenges
• 54:11 Church Experiences and Spiritual Growth
• 1:07:46 Music as Expression of Faith
• 1:16:53 Waiting on God's Timing

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Before we get into today's video, I just wanted to say thank you to all of the new subscribers. If you haven't yet, consider subscribing, hit that bell notification so that you can see every time I put out a new video. A major portion of you that watch my videos haven't subscribed yet, so why not? It's free. You can also find a PayPal link below if you want to give a one-time or give a monthly to support the channel. Anything, great or small, is appreciated. Now let's get into the video. Thank you all so much for joining me again on another episode of Faith and Failures. Today I have with me a special guest, mike Geo. So, mike, let me ask you this in my research, I did some chat gbt on you and geo is not your actual like you have a different, actual full-ass name, don't you? Oh yeah, what is? What is it? I've read it, but I couldn't pronounce it so the.

Speaker 2: 0:58

So there's two ways to pronounce it. The american way is giordano. The italian way is giordano so technically because there's no g in well, there's a g, but in italian the g's pronounce joe, okay, so it's really like. It's like the equivalent of jordan giordano okay, well, that's pretty cool.

Speaker 1: 1:18

So that leads me to my next question. So you're italian, that's right, yeah, yeah. So tell me about that. Like is like, were your parents or grandparents like immigrants? Like, how did you? You said right now, you're Italian, that's right, yeah, yeah. So tell me about that. Like, were your parents or grandparents like immigrants? Like, how did you? You said right now, you're living in New York.

Speaker 2: 1:31

Yeah, so, and I did ancestry last year actually, or I wouldn't even be able to answer a lot of this my great-grandmother, she, came here from Sicily.

Speaker 1: 1:41

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:42

And she actually didn't even renounce her italian citizenship, so she was living here, but she was still an italian citizen. And, uh, on my, the rest of my family, it goes back to summits, the early 1900s summits, the late 1800s. They came in and pretty much everybody came in either through trenton, new jersey, or they went to Long Island and yeah so, and it's from you know, sicily, naples and very southern Italian mostly. Okay, that's cool.

Speaker 1: 2:16

Yeah, I'm just a white boy from the south. Grandparents, great grandparents, they were all farmers, that's it. Grandparents, great-grandparents, they were all farmers, that's it so. But a lot of that heritage like that, that's your heritage. It seems to all not all a lot be stemmed or live around the new york area. Is that, like that's the the main port of entry as far as like, how that goes, like do you know the history of how they even, like, came here?

Speaker 2: 2:39

I think someone came here for work, uh, but I my my guess, uh, my wife would probably know the answer, but my guess is it's because ellis island. You probably had to come through ellis island okay and because of that, a lot of people that came in probably just settled in new york, new jersey, you know that is your wife, italian too yes, okay, she's part. I mean she's part, she's part german and stuff, but uh, she's mostly italian as well okay, well, that's really cool.

Speaker 1: 3:10

So I want to kind of uh open up and talk about how we got to know each other, how we even got connected. So I randomly found you on tiktok, like that, that's how we got connected. And I just today, like I was doing a little bit of homework, I'm like, okay, I want to know a little bit about this guy. I want to have some, you know, good questions for him to like, uh, get some depth and let the people know who he is and and uh. And then I saw maybe last week you baptized your daughter, right, and then like all the the hate in the comments, like people get really, uh, there's, there's a lot of good uh church people out there that have all the answers in there, right, I knew it was.

Speaker 2: 3:50

I knew it was coming. I mean, I knew it was coming.

Speaker 1: 3:52

Yeah, and so that's kind of actually how we connected. Like I, what? What was the post that you made that I commented on? And then you made another post and my comment was above and I'm like oh, this guy actually like pays attention to who's talking to him.

Speaker 2: 4:06

Yeah, I don't. I mean, I made so many posts around that time, I don't remember which one it was. It was probably the one about the church membership thing. That's most likely because that one had so many comments, because I replied to every comment, but on that one I had to give up. It was, it was impossible, Impossible. So I kind to every comment, but on that one I had to give up. It was, it was impossible impossible.

Speaker 1: 4:31

So I kind of yeah, it was probably that one about church membership. Yeah, so, and and I, I was like dude, okay, well, this guy actually like responds, cause I've I've reached out to people before, cause my favorite thing, like I teach the Bible on the channel, but my favorite thing is interviews, like I love the back and forth, the talking, get to know people's backgrounds, like you know back and forth. And like I hate just sitting there talking to a camera. Even though I can do it, I don't like it. I prefer to get to know somebody. So, speaking of get to know, like when you sent me a short little bio I asked about, you said about 20 years of making music. Is that right? So so how old are you? I am 36. You're 36. So about 16 years of making music. Now, what was the, the kind of launching pad or the inspiration to even make you want to get into music or try like, are you one of those guys that can play kind of almost every instrument?

Speaker 2: 5:18

Yeah, yeah, I play, I play a variety, yeah, I play a lot Not a lot, but I play more than probably people are used to in 2025.

Speaker 1: 5:27

Right. So what was that original inspiration that even got you into music or going in that direction?

Speaker 2: 5:33

Honestly, when I was a kid, my parents played Beatles songs, specifically Paul McCartney songs, every day and I was obsessed with it and I would play the songs, songs, and I would sit there with a plastic guitar and I would sing them. For some reason it just made me, it just made me feel good, like I felt like, yeah, I got like this big wave of energy and it just felt good to do it. Um, I have no idea why, and it just carried on and then, like years later, I said I could probably look, I could try and learn guitar for real, like why not? Yeah, and that's how it started, mainly from beatles when I was a kid.

Speaker 1: 6:14

So what was your um like, how did that journey look like? So you, you got the little fake guitar, so did you take guitar lessons did Did you just start teaching yourself? Like, how did that, how did that work?

Speaker 2: 6:27

Uh, I got a guitar. I think my father bought me a guitar classical guitar and I remember like looking up Beatles stuff and I saw it as a song called Eleanor Rigby and I saw that it had like three chords E, minor, a minor, c and I'm like, okay, three chords, let me learn the chords to that song. So I learned E minor and then I learned, and when I remember when I strummed the E minor, I was like it kind of doesn't sound like it, of course, because it's so many strings and stuff, I mean it's just, but I but that was like the first memory I have of learning a song and so basically, whenever I wanted to learn a song, I learned the chords. And I think that's why I learned is because I had high motivation to play the songs, rather than I did guitar lessons for a short period around then and I just I don't know, I probably have bad ADD, couldn't focus, didn't care about the, the scales or reading, but if I had a high motivation it was much easier.

Speaker 1: 7:26

Yeah, so you start there now I don't know how, how, how far or deep into the 20 years, when you kind of start, you find your love, you, you kind of are growing as a musician, growing as an artist. Like this whole time you could just naturally sing or what like. How did that?

Speaker 2: 7:45

no, I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't say that at all. No, I mean, there are people that would probably, you know, like my family, thought I could back then. But I can go back and listen and be like, oh man, if I think, this is how, if I can go back now here and be like wow, that's what I sounded like yeah I'm afraid of what I'm gonna think in 10 years about how I sound now.

Speaker 2: 8:05

I mean, really it was. Yeah, I mean I didn't put my New York accent was so overpowering in my singing and I was pitchy and inconsistent. But you know it's over time. You just do it, do and do it, and do it and do it and you get better. So I would say that, uh, my natural ability was I had an ability to have the flexibility to do the notes right but, my problem was pronunciation and pitch.

Speaker 1: 8:35

Yeah, when I started yeah, the uh, the youtube channel. Y'all have the um, which we'll. We'll talk about the saints in exile today. You just earned another subscriber and I sent it to one of my friends. Matter of fact, uh, the friend I'm talking about, he is the MD of the music director at my church on the worship team, and I sent him that I said, hey, I'm going to interview this guy today Cause he's like he's a band nerd. He like gets all excited about you know, uh, music, the guy he uh nerds out. And so I sent him one of your songs and I said I'm interviewing this guy. He said, hey, tell him we need a guitar player at church. And so I was listening to some of your songs on your channel and you know that, uh, that band they're called amber lynn. You ever heard of them?

Speaker 2: 9:22

oh man, I think I that sounds so familiar. I couldn't tell you what they sound like, but I think you ever heard of them. Oh man, I think I that sounds so familiar. I couldn't tell you what they sound like, but I think I've heard of them before.

Speaker 1: 9:28

Well, one of your songs, your, your voice, it sounded like that guy and I'm like, okay, this guy's like, cause I I had went through some of your TikTok, but the uh. Hold on, what's the uh? Did you know? There's something on YouTube that is your profile or your name, but it says something different.

Speaker 2: 9:48

My name or the Saints in Exile.

Speaker 1: 9:50

The Saints in Exile and I click on my dead end and it goes to saintsinexile-topic.

Speaker 2: 9:58

Oh yeah, when you distribute music, uh they get. They put it on a, a topic, uh like a separate thing from your artist YouTube profile, although they sync it in a playlist on your profile. I wish it wasn't like that, because they don't even let you, they don't even allow people to comment, I don't think.

Speaker 1: 10:20

Cause I was confused, cause that's my dead end, becoming the villain, um, and then, like bad vibes, I was going through and listening to it and but when I clicked, because it's on, it's on the playlist. Underneath your profile says home. It says music videos. I click on my dead end, but then it takes me to saints and exile topic. I just thought that was really weird yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:44

That's what I mean. As far as anything I've ever experienced, it's always like that. They have the topic channel and I hate it.

Speaker 1: 10:52

I wish it was just in, you know, sync together yeah, you, you would think it would be, that would make sense. But yeah, I don't know. I just saw that I'm like did somebody try to like rip off your, your band, and they're like posting your stuff pretending to be you? I didn't know they did it.

Speaker 2: 11:06

No, that's, that's YouTube. That's a YouTube thing. Okay, of course, youtube All right.

Speaker 1: 11:12

So let's see now deep into your, or into your 20 years of music. When did you decide? How long have you been doing? Saints in Exile.

Speaker 2: 11:23

Oh, that's very new. Oh, is it really? Yeah, I mean, it took a number of years to get it actually going Because, honestly, we weren't sure. Honestly, we started in 2020, and then that was when I called 2020 the year I got smacked in the face by Jesus. I know that sounds aggressive, but it was like and that kind of actually stopped that for a bit, and it wasn't until late last year that we started, you know, continuing where we left off Same guys Like same band members and everything. Same guys, yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:02

Now, are these people you grew up with, or how did you meet them?

Speaker 2: 12:04

Well, the rapper I'd known probably since around 2007, 2008. I don't even remember how I met him. Aside from that, it was through music locally in Staten Island. And then the drummer I definitely met in 2006, 2007 in Staten Island locally. He was always the best drummer in the scene and you know, he's just so nice, so we always got along really well.

Speaker 1: 12:31

So there's just the three of y'all then.

Speaker 2: 12:33

Just the three of us. Really so the drummer does that mean you play and do everything else? Yeah, the drummer does the drums and I do all the rest of the music.

Speaker 1: 12:42

Wow, that does not sound like it's just a rapper, a drummer and a guy that does everything else. That's awesome. Good, yeah, it sounds awesome. Now does the drummer do any is? All he does is drum. He didn't sing or anything like that.

Speaker 2: 12:55

No, he just drums actually. I mean on becoming the villain technically, in the background of the bridge he's singing like we're doing like gang vocals and it's, but it's mixed very in the background, yeah, so technically he does sing then, I guess, on there.

Speaker 1: 13:08

But he's mainly the drummer. Okay, that that's pretty cool and emotional support and yeah, that's, that's very important. That's very important. So what's the? Uh? So what, what does that look like? Like, what's the music scene in new york like, is it? I know you said it's pretty new, but what made y'all start to try to form something, to try to try to do that?

Speaker 2: 13:29

um, you know the scene in new york I mean staten island. I really don't know what's going on. New york it's. It ranges everything from, um, like a lot of indie bands that maybe aren't great to a lot of bands that are like fantastic, that are even signed, playing in little clubs and stuff. But we, you know, we just the three of us get along. And actually the drummer he was in the same church as me. We were both on the worship team, so those years even got us really good is playing off of each other. But the reason why we started, I really really it was the rapper. He was in another band in staten island for many years and they kind of they broke up and they started a band. The whole band started a band without him, basically, yeah, and so he's wanted to to do music for a while and he kind of pushed it to happen. And I don't mean that in a bad way, but he pushed it to happen and it happened. So really it's his fault.

Speaker 1: 14:35

Yeah, everybody needs a motivator to push us to that next level. So now you've mentioned a little bit, so would you consider y'all a Christian band?

Speaker 2: 14:42

So we're all Christian, right, we're all Christian. And even the lyrics, like my dad, actually my dead end. In the second verse it's a Christian rapper named Cut Right and those lyrics are very and actually that song was written before. I would consider myself Christian, christian, but I changed the lyrics to instead of saying, like this is my dead end, I'm like, is this my dead end? I try to make it sound more like a prayer.

Speaker 2: 15:11

So I consider us a Christian band, um, but we're not um the type of band that's, we're not so in your face about it, which with my solo stuff I am, that's like all 100 christian, but the band is less in your face and more um. And you know, and at first that's one of the reasons why I wasn't um totally sold on the band, because I'm like I feel called to do christian music and and it didn't, although it has christian themes and it's even got Christian lyrics in it, it's not the way, it's not what you would call worship or CCM at all. But you know, over time I started saying to myself you know there are people that it could reach that it may not otherwise with the other music. So you know, I overthink things a lot too, so it's very hard to say, but as far as I consider us a christian band as far as the lyrics and stuff who, who's the writer?

Speaker 1: 16:13

do all of you help like how does that work out? As far as, like, the setting of like we're working on another song, or is it? You bring the song to the band and they call you collaborate, or they're just like all right, cool, let's do it typically I write the.

Speaker 2: 16:28

I don't write the raps, um, or the lyrics in the raps. That's all. The rap of the raps are written by the rapper and the lyrics in the raps written by the rapper, um, and the rest of it is pretty much me bringing it in. The rapper helps me with some lyrics in, uh, you know the verses and chorus, slash hooks, uh, but a lot of it's me bringing it because I write a lot.

Speaker 1: 16:50

I write constantly, so yeah, as far as writing goes, like you said, you're not overtly, like you're not quoting the Bible or anything like that, but you are from a, from a um, I guess from a Christian foundation of how you write. Are you on purpose Uh, you may not know the answer, you may never thought about it Are you on purpose not trying to include so much Jesus stuff like you do your personal, your stuff? Or is it just kind of come out that way to where it's like okay, this is our, this is our mission to um mission to help people, being Christians, but not preaching to them? Like, what's your thought process when you're trying to write something for the band Not your personal stuff, but for the band?

Speaker 2: 17:36

Yeah, I would say that now it is intentional. I would say in the beginning I was reluctant to really get started with the project for that reason and honestly, it's between praying and thinking and talking to the other band members. Plus I actually have a Christian therapist and he kind of gave me some really great advice on it too and a lot of stuff. It kind of I said, all right, I'm not doing anything wrong here by doing this and it could actually be helpful. And actually you know, we yeah, we don't want to turn people off that may not listen to it to begin with if it's Christian.

Speaker 2: 18:21

So we're like we think it would be, we think it's cool if someone listens to it and then realizes after they like real, after they like it, they're like oh, they're christian yeah um, rather than going in kind of saying yeah, maybe, uh, I'm not gonna like this and I'm gonna listen, um, which some people may say that's a good thing, but it's probably I even feel like it may be hurtful, because we would probably, you know, christian audiences want to hear Christian, like strong Christian themes, um, so we're kind of like we kind of skate in the middle, which, you know, could be good, could be bad, I have no idea. You know, I don't know what I'm doing, you know.

Speaker 1: 19:05

Yeah, I mean sometimes the the I mean, obviously the journey in the process is half, half the battle right there, Like cause you never, I know you start off a certain way, but I mean, if you're growing constantly and you're the way you write and the way you deliver and the way you, you know, uh, collaborate with each other, Like you never know where it's going to go, and it may be that like it's one of those middle of the road things that somebody who had never listened to Christian music listens to yours and and it touches them in a way, and then like, wait a minute, these guys are Christian, and it could be like that. And some people they, you know, they listen to Christian music, they want to hear a Christian song, Christian lyrics, I want, I want the word of God and that's all you know. That kind of. But I mean there is a great people always do black and white, but there is a massive gray area where I think sometimes people get lost and they think it's only one way or the other, when it can be both.

Speaker 1: 20:00

Like that's that's a very unique genre and way of looking at it, that like somebody who may never listen to Christian music and they realize, wait a minute, these guys are Christian and what they just wrote spoke to me. I want to. I want to dig in even more and find what this stuff is about, Cause they didn't preach at me. Like I tell my people you know, I think you know, I'm a pastor of a church I tell my people all the time you're never going to argue somebody in heaven you won't. They will, they will double down, they will dig their feet in and you will not be able to argue, but you can love them in heaven. So I think that's pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 20:33

Now, we totally agree with that.

Speaker 1: 20:34

We test a little bit, or you mentioned it a little bit Now. Your, your faith journey obviously has been pretty public. You've been putting it out there on social media as far as like your struggles and stuff. So let's start kind of from the beginning Personally, in your household, how were you raised Like? What was the atmosphere, what was the culture of your house as far as Christian not Christian, religious not religious, what did that look like when you were growing up?

Speaker 2: 21:01

You know, I wouldn't really label it as a religious household at all, it was more just, you know, culture, I guess, tradition, culture. So I went to Catholic school and I, you know, we would sometimes go to Catholic church and that was. But you know, that was really it. The main thing I remember, the most Christian thing I remember as a kid, is one time my father said, told me I should pray at night. And he said, you know, one time he said oh, he says oh, I prayed and when I woke up I felt better. He said something like that once and it always stuck with me, you know, and I was like I was probably my parents were divorced when I was like in third grade, so it had to be before that that he said it because he was still there. So and then, yeah, I wouldn't really call it a now, not to say that.

Speaker 2: 21:52

You know, I have a crazy family or anything. It's like you know we're. It's Italian, new York. It's a family of a lot of a lot of cursing and yelling, you know, like if you could just imagine the stereotypical thing. That's what it was. And, um, you know, and I don't even mean cursing at each other, just like you know, as you're talking like, every word is just like you know it was, that's just how, but you know.

Speaker 1: 22:14

But, um, yeah, hope I answered that question yeah, so there wasn't like a church going, it was more the traditional like I guess it wasn't even really church going, it was kind of here and there on the main holidays type deal. And yeah, you see, I was the opposite, my, my parents, like I was, of course my dad was the pastor, so we were in church every single time the doors were open, and even when they weren't, we had a key, so we were there, like it was very uh, it was religious, but different religious, like it wasn't a Catholic religious. So now you said you were raised with the background of Catholic, so what would you label yourself as now?

Speaker 2: 22:54

So, and it was wasn't until the 2020 time where I started just really getting into so much stuff, especially like I love apologetics, just really getting into so much stuff, especially like I love apologetics. Um, you know, and I would label myself on the Protestant side now and I would probably, you know, there's people that probably in my life that they know that Um, but there's just some stuff that I like I'm open. Okay, so I'm open to say that I could be wrong and being Catholic could be the way, but I don't feel that God is sitting there and like if I Protestant but I should have been Catholic, he's like well, that's it, you're done or vice versa.

Speaker 1: 23:38

You know.

Speaker 2: 23:38

I'm like and and it all, like it's honestly a little overwhelming, in a way, to the point where I don't know I just it makes me not even want to say like, label myself as anything, but that's where I'm at right now.

Speaker 1: 23:54

So how and and this seems to be like a guy in my church he is. He he was raised Catholic, like, like religious Catholic, like the, the mass, the, the prayers, the penance, like all, all his family was Catholic, like that was how he was raised, he was deep in it, and so I've talked to him several times, being like on the other side of now he's at more of a charismatic church and, uh, protestant. It's like, um, the evangelical side, and he's like, dude, I thought all of you were a bunch of weirdos, he said, until I actually like became a part of the community and realized that, like this is by faith, through grace, what the word says, and so he's like all the, all these things that that my eyes were closed to, I began to look and realize that this is just scripture and realize that this is just scripture, like how can we close our eyes to scripture because of a certain religion that tells us to, like a certain church tells us to? And so he's walked through that journey. So what was it that made you begin? Was it a set of apologetics? Was it a deeper study or understanding, like what began that transitional move for you, spiritually and mentally? Because it's like it's a big if you're raised a certain way. It is a massive mind shift and it is so hard to change Like I've.

Speaker 1: 25:12

I've went through that myself, like I was raised a certain way and for me to be my own Christian and follow Christ myself, I had to put aside and say, like you said a minute ago, this could be wrong, and have that question on everything and let it and let God form me into what he wants me to be and let scripture lead me into what scripture wants me to do, instead of like man-made religion and like let's follow, don't ask any questions, just do what you're told because that's the way it's been done for you know forever. So what was it to begin to make you even start to look outside of the Catholic faith?

Speaker 2: 25:49

Well, it wasn't that. I was even looking outside. It was, you know, during COVID I had some, like I call them, emotional slash spiritual experiences and I was reading through the whole Bible and there were things that I mean and of course, obviously the biggest one is grace through faith and it just felt like, you know, the Catholic church you have to like, first of all, if you miss a Sunday intentionally, it's a mortal sin. A mortal sin and I'm like, wow and it's just. But in order to be freed from that, you couldn't even pray on your own, you had to go. It had to be a confession in person, which I have no problem with confessing to somebody, but it just feels like, you know, like the sacraments, you have to do this, you have to do that, and it almost feels like the shift goes away from jesus to ritual rituals, yeah, which kind of kind of feels like the way the pharisees sort of were, where it's. You know, I mean, it's obviously it's not that extreme, they're not, um, they don't want to stone you if you heal somebody, you know, if you pick green on sunday or something, but um, yeah, there were, there were things like that and you know, I mean, even look at those little things like. I mean it's.

Speaker 2: 27:21

It says that Jesus had a brother. It says in the Bible that you know Mary consummated the marriage. Could the translation when you go to Greek? I never looked into it that much Cause I it's to me that's not so important.

Speaker 1: 27:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:37

And rather it's just important that it's you know. Grace through faith is the thing, that's the main thing. Uh, so that's you know where I'm at.

Speaker 1: 27:50

So now you said that you're obviously your parents Catholic, you're. Are they still Catholic? Are they they still practice the faith? Has that caused? Well, yeah, I mean as much as probably as they did when you were a kid. Has that caused complications in in, I mean as much as probably as they did when you were a kid. Has that caused complications in your relationship with?

Speaker 2: 28:08

them. No, they don't feel like you're betraying the family or the heritage or the you know if they I mean they're betraying it by not going to church on Sunday anyway, I guess that's true, but I mean really not going to confession, but you know it's real. You know I feel like, if anything, maybe it's like it's possible that like someone maybe was embarrassed that you know I was making like I put a post up, I got. You know I got baptized again in 2021 and I put the post up.

Speaker 2: 28:38

So you know, it's possible that you know. A lot of people saw that in my family. It's possible my father or someone was embarrassed by that. I have no idea. I mean I really don't care. Um, I mean I do care but at the same time I don't yeah uh, now what about your wife?

Speaker 1: 28:50

was she raised the same that you were, and is she going through the same transition, or how? What does her walk look like? Are y'all unified in the house?

Speaker 2: 28:57

as far as, like the way you're, you're going now yeah, well, she, she wasn't brought up catholic okay, she was not, she was, uh. Now she was baptized as a baby catholic in the hospital. Oh, she was very sick, so they did baptize her, but she had a lot of issues, like you know. She didn't have a father, really, and her mother has a lot of problems with addiction. So she lives with her great aunt and her, her father's I mean her brother's father they have a different father, but she was close with him. He was Seventh-day Adventist.

Speaker 2: 29:36

She wasn't brought up with that, and then the mother was going to a Baptist church, so she had a little more experience of being in a Baptist church for a brief period than anything, um, but you know, she has a very strong natural um, I don't know, I guess a core relationship with God, just because of the stuff she's been through and how she's had to come through it, and she always says it's God that did it. So she has a strong natural relationship with God. That, you know, I didn't have growing up but unfortunately she developed that through a lot of trials yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 30:16

That's good. I'm glad to hear that, because if the house is divided, life can be very, very terrible. So now, you touched on it, you didn't, you didn't touch on it, we. I made a comment because people on twitter or not twitter, uh t well, the internet can be, so they have all the answers. So, for those who may see this and they know who you are and they've seen your stuff on TikTok now is your time to explain the baptism of your baby. People are so dumb. I can't, I can't I mean it's I.

Speaker 2: 30:55

I mean, and I told him I say, I said, hey, it's, it's right, it's a catholic thing, but it's like the family tradition thing and it's like, all right, my family wants to be that. What is the thing? I'm going to baptize a catholic or we're going to do a, what is it called? I forgot what you call it Dedication.

Speaker 2: 31:14

Yeah, maybe dedication and so we're just doing Catholic. It'll make my family happy and okay, and that's what we did. It was more tradition than anything. People are like you shouldn't be baptized. I'm like, and because I did, what's going to happen Nothing. What's going to happen.

Speaker 1: 31:32

Nothing. What's going?

Speaker 2: 31:33

to happen Nothing.

Speaker 1: 31:33

Like she's going to have to make that choice when she gets of age.

Speaker 1: 31:36

Anyways, like that's, like that's how people like split hairs with, like the Christmas thing, like should you have a tree or the Easter bunny? Like with the eggs and stuff, and I'm like, okay, come on, like it. It's like what is the meaning? Or should you get tattoos? Like what's the meaning behind what you're doing? Like what is your? The bible from cover to cover, like if david could kill a man because he slept with his wife and then have that baby? And the bible still calls david the man after god's own heart. The heart matters a lot more than we give it credit for sometimes, unless you have a Christmas tree, yeah, or you baptize your baby.

Speaker 1: 32:19

It's out the window. That's just too far. That is unforgivable.

Speaker 2: 32:25

Not even David had a Christmas tree, okay.

Speaker 1: 32:28

Right, right. Yeah, that's true. That's true. So is your daughter that you just baptized. Is that your first child? Yes yeah, how's that? I mean I love her.

Speaker 2: 32:39

It was very difficult in the beginning. She was. She was born with club feet, no what is club feet.

Speaker 1: 32:48

What does that mean?

Speaker 2: 32:50

um. So basically, instead of the feet being like this yeah they were turned in and like like that. Oh so we had to have casts on her for like eight weeks and every time they put a new cast on you to get a new cast every week. Um, for the first four weeks it was new cast and it was like, uh, three weeks of the same cast, so seven weeks, and she, every time it was a new cast.

Speaker 2: 33:15

She didn't sleep for like two days and she'd cry and cry and cry and cry and cry. So it was very difficult and she actually didn't start sleeping through the night. She'll she'll be six months next week. She didn't start sleeping through the night until 4th of July. That was the first night she slept through the night.

Speaker 1: 33:33

Wow, and all the cast stuff done, everything's good now.

Speaker 2: 33:37

Yeah, so now she wears boots and bars. She wears those for 12 hours a day until she's five. Wow, so yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:45

Wow, well, that's I mean. I guess you call that baptized by fire. So now anything you have after this how? I mean I guess you call that baptized by fire, so now anything you have after this how many kids you have?

Speaker 2: 33:54

it's fine, you've been through it all. Yeah, who knows if we'll be able to have another one at this point, but we'll see.

Speaker 1: 34:00

You're like nope, that's it.

Speaker 2: 34:02

That's it. Between the stress and the financial situation, it's not easy to have a kid.

Speaker 1: 34:08

No, it's not, it's not, I have my. I did have a kid. No, it's not, it's not, I have my. I'd like another one, though I I got a. I've been married before and so I have a teenager. He's about to be 17 in november and he lives with us full time, and so my, my wife. Now we just had our two uh, october be two years, so we got my first girl. So it's a. It's a different experience. Like I know, you said six months old, as I said my she's 20, what? 21 months, something like that.

Speaker 1: 34:37

And it is a different thing from having a son to having a girl. Like when she cries, like everything inside of me, like wants to rush to her and see what is wrong, and it's like my son. My son was like I walk it off, you'll be okay, you're supposed to be a man, but like when a little girl cries, I just I can't explain the difference, but uh, it's uh. Being a being a girl dad is a different beast. So now um has, since this, um being a dad, being an even more so a girl dad, um has those emotions. Have they come out, or has a deeper emotional state come out of you in songwriting? You know what I mean? Like you've experienced something that that has touched a depth of you inside that you've never felt before. Has it? Can you tell if it's changed anything, or were you already kind of tapped into that?

Speaker 2: 35:33

Yeah, I mean, I already feel pretty. I feel like I feel too much sometimes, yeah, so, but I mean I for sure haven't. I've never felt anything as strong as I do for her. And the thing is, with the songwriting I would say that it hasn't translated so much to that just yet. Yeah, um, but you know the way I with songwriting. Sometimes it's when you are going through things, it's kind of it's happening inside, yeah, and it eventually seeps its way out yeah but I'm still going I think I'm still in it hasn't seeped out full yet into that, yeah, Into that sense.

Speaker 1: 36:14

I mean I wrote a song for her but have you put it out yet, or was that just like between?

Speaker 2: 36:21

No, it's like a children's, it's like a. It's actually a Christian children's song, like a very Christian children's song. I haven't, I have to put it out, but I haven't yet.

Speaker 1: 36:29

Okay, I have to put it out, but I haven't yet. Okay. So now, when you put songs out, or have you ever started writing a song? Say, for instance, 2020 was a big worldwide. A lot of things going on, a lot of loss, a lot of chaos, the things you see online. Like being a musician today, being an artist today, it's a lot different than it used to be Like. Now there's so many things that you have to put out online or that you can ingest from online. Does the culture or instances or seasons or whatever from that you see online, does that influence your music writing as well? Like you, you see something. You're like man I I want to write a song that that touches specifically this pain or this struggle oh, yeah, I mean, there's stuff like that that happens all the time.

Speaker 2: 37:23

Um, some, yeah, sometimes it's like this, like that, which is like I guess concept is this feeling. That which is like I guess concept is this feeling that people feel I want to write, because, you know, I'm feeling that too. I want to write something that sheds light on it in a maybe a different way. Um, or sometimes, honestly, sometimes you hear other music and you're like, whoa, I'm like really inspired to write a song because I just listened to these other songs and so it is as far. You know, there's all types of things, there's a lot of different things that can inspire you to write. It just depends on what it is that's setting you off.

Speaker 1: 38:03

Now do you easily because I haven't wrote in a long time, but I'm also the worship leader at my church and before I was the worship leader I would write songs that weren't. They weren't bad songs, that could be about girls or whatever, but it was like kind of a but I was. I could easily put my brain in the mode of that emotion, even though I wasn't experiencing it, when you put out so what's, what's your favorite platform that you like to put? I found you on Tik TOK but like, do you have a favorite avenue that you like putting stuff out on?

Speaker 2: 38:34

You know I like TikTok because I mean I was on TikTok when it was called Musically at first in 2016. And I was on it from there and an old band of mine. We did decent on there in the beginning. I like TikTok just because you get feedback quick. Yeah, even when you don't want I mean, you know, it depends, and I and I've I've noticed that it's the controversy.

Speaker 2: 39:00

People like yeah, I noticed that yeah um, which is, uh, you know I'm not gonna, you know I'm not gonna put stuff up to be controversial for the sake of it. Yeah, but now I know if I'm going through something I'm like, all right, I'll put it up because people may respond to it or resonate.

Speaker 1: 39:19

Or judge it, they'll solve your problems or they'll judge it. Yeah, they'll solve your problems pretty quick, won't they?

Speaker 2: 39:25

You know what? Sometimes the people they argue amongst themselves in the comments. I'm like good.

Speaker 1: 39:37

Let them battle it out. I'll come check later. I went on one of my videos uh, because I put these, the shorts from the, the interviews of the bible studies on tiktok, and I looked and one person commented and I didn't even have to respond because, like all of a sudden, boom, boom, boom, boom, like back and forth, back and forth, and I'm like I can't even up, I'm not looking at this. It's like, dude, it's just too much. It's too much. So what is something we talk a little bit about, social media, what's something encouraging that you have found? You said you kind of like TikTok the most. What's? What's some encouraging? Um, the atmosphere of TikTok, or something that you you really enjoy from it when you post something or something that you, you really enjoy from it.

Speaker 2: 40:15

When you post something, um, I, you know there are, I will say this sometimes I will post something as a joke and people will think it's like, dead serious, yeah, um, or it could even be a true thing, but I'm not posting it really to like cause the response again. But people, some, there's a lot of people that are pretty caring on there. They're like oh, you know, they offer you some strong advice because they think you're going through okay. So, for instance, I put up a post just because I thought it would be funny. I have a song, I had, I have a a song. Prayer was a request. So I, at one point I was doing something where people had a prayer request and wanted to written to a song they can use for prayer. I was writing it. I saw that someone's yeah, yes, someone sent me one. This is last year. Someone sent me one for like lust and it was like for porn addiction and all this stuff. So I wrote it and I put it out and I made a post because there was a. I didn't even see the commercial, but I heard there was a super bowl commercial with um, there's this, but I heard there was a Superbowl commercial with um, there's this actress, sydney Sweeney, have you ever heard of her? And she's, she's, she's an actress that is, she's very pretty. Yeah, so she.

Speaker 2: 41:25

There was Superbowl commercial and people were complaining like, oh, you know, they used, uh, I don't remember what they were selling. Oh, it was mayonnaise, like mayonnaise. Like, oh, they're using mayonnaise, using sex, to sell mayonnaise. So I made a post with the song and I said, um, when you see the super bowl commercial and now you don't know if I said like now you don't know if you should eat mayonnaise anymore and you plan on making a tuna sandwich. And it was a joke. But people, like they really thought that I was considering never eating mayo again. But I wasn't, I was just joking, you know. But but they were very nice about it. They were like you know, they were very kind about it. So the atmosphere is, people are there are a lot of people there who are very caring, although sometimes they're not really discerning like, fully your intent or it could just it could be my fault, maybe I'm not being completely obvious about it or something, I don't know, but I find it funny.

Speaker 1: 42:19

I mean people like you don't have to try hard in this sphere of the internet to make people just lose their minds. Like it's just, it's so easy, it's just so easy. And it's like I'm not even being for real, it's a joke. And they're like oh no, oh no, he's going to stop eating mayonnaise. And I'm like, even if he does, who cares? Like why?

Speaker 2: 42:42

are you?

Speaker 1: 42:42

so concerned about it. It's just, it's ridiculous. So now you said was it in 2020 that y'all started the band, right?

Speaker 2: 42:53

That's when we started. Yeah, we didn't even have a name. We made a couple songs, we started a couple songs.

Speaker 1: 43:01

Now, what was the inspiration behind the name of the band?

Speaker 2: 43:04

Well, it took us a long time to come up with a name, but the name is basically Saints in Exile. It's about how God's people are. It's like it's like you have the Garden of Eden and we're all out and it's like we're all in exile, type of thing. So pretty much that's. I mean, it's simple, but that's pretty much what the inspiration. As far as the meaning of the name, it also sounds cool, yeah, so that helps. But I really liked you know, we had a couple names we were throwing out there and I liked the meaning of it. Um, the drummer, I will tell you he didn't, he was like. He was like I don't, I don't want to use his name because it's like we're calling ourselves saints. They're like no, no, no, no, we're not, you're taking it too seriously.

Speaker 1: 43:48

Yeah, like chill out yeah, it's funny.

Speaker 2: 43:51

It was a funny story. He'll. He'll like that.

Speaker 1: 43:53

I mentioned that You're all going to have to do like the Catholic or whatever thing, where you're like in the dress and like the the get up and you're on the front of the cover Like that's. Have y'all came out with an EP yet? Yeah, do the halo no it.

Speaker 2: 44:13

It's really helpful nowadays to just do singles, but you could do something called a waterfall release, where it's basically like you have an ep or an album and every release, so you release one song and then you release another song and they both go into the same thing and over time they be it's an album, it becomes an album. It's all on one thing that's pretty cool and you don't have to.

Speaker 2: 44:32

you don't have to pre-choose the songs. If you decide you want to do a song you wrote yesterday and add it on there, you can. So we're doing a waterfall release. So it will eventually be a full album or an EP, whatever it winds up being. But as of now they're just like singles coming out every six weeks.

Speaker 1: 44:50

Okay, so singles coming out every six weeks, so okay. So, um, on talking about releasing, you only have are you making videos? I guess you're not. These are just like uh, cover art on youtube.

Speaker 2: 45:06

So on the on the topics yeah, on on our channel we do we shorts like little shorts videos. Okay, there they are. Yeah, rather than do a whole music. If a song did really well, we'd make a music video, but it doesn't make sense to unless there's a demand for it.

Speaker 1: 45:22

Well, I didn't know if you were doing the house just like the little clip, or not the clip art but the cover art, where it's just a thing with playing. Now, this one is a what do you call it? A lyric video.

Speaker 2: 45:34

Yeah, this is a lyric video there and uh, and if you go to shorts they're like it's actually it is videos that we've made of us, some of them, but you know, they're not very fancy, just very simple. And yeah, because when you, at the end of the day, you put it up, you don't know what's going to work. Sometimes you could film something in five minutes and it can get a million views, and you could film something for 40 days and high production and it gets like 10 views.

Speaker 1: 46:01

Yeah, like the, the great, the awesome thing and the crazy thing at the same time is like these little phones are putting out with now, like they can, they can record some pretty good stuff and actually good quality.

Speaker 2: 46:12

Yeah, there's a new feature on the new iPhone where you could use the voice memos like a voice memos app to record and it isolates it and it makes it sound. I mean I wouldn't go out of my way to use it to record if I have a microphone, but it could work. It could work. I think it was Michael Buble, but if you it could work, it could. It could work in my. I think it was Michael Bley. He released a song using that. It sounded, sounded pretty decent.

Speaker 1: 46:40

Really. Yeah, I guess he has the bandwidth to just like eh, we'll try and see if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Well, it was it was sponsored by Apple, so I'm sure he did get money for it then. Okay. He got money for it for sure, he probably got a lot of money for that yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:57

It was a cross thing. He got cross promotion, he got money for it and Apple got Michael Buble putting it out there and showing people. Hey, you can use this new feature.

Speaker 1: 47:07

I know I just mentioned your YouTube channel, but are you or your, does your band, the uh the exile, have a Tik TOK, or are you just putting it out on your personal stuff, or no, we have a Tik TOK. Okay, cause I have not.

Speaker 2: 47:22

I think it's not saints in exile saints in exile band.

Speaker 1: 47:26

Okay, saints and exile band, saints Catholic, all right.

Speaker 2: 47:30

Yeah, so yeah, that's a new we. We just created that a couple months ago, okay, cool so it's got the um the little shorter.

Speaker 1: 47:41

I guess the verticals like y'all have on your youtube shorts yeah, it's, and I'm posting the same thing to both.

Speaker 2: 47:47

so whatever is being posted to the tick tock, I'm putting right up on the YouTube. Okay, because they both function very similar.

Speaker 1: 47:56

Yeah, they really do. So what's? You said, okay, we got Saints in Exile and you said you have your own other stuff too. What do you call that? Is it just the one that you and I have been talking back on, or do you have a name, or is?

Speaker 2: 48:13

it just your name, it's just Mike Geo.

Speaker 1: 48:15

Okay, mike, geo, and so, um, after we get off, uh, you can, if you will, text me the links to all this stuff so I can make sure to post it when the episode comes out. So now for for you and for the band, like, are y'all working on any bigger projects right now, any new songs? Can you give any teasers or do you need to keep that locked?

Speaker 2: 48:38

up, so nobody. No, I mean, you know I'm not making. I mean what. I mean the teaser, what's it? What would I even give as a teaser? I mean with the band we have a song coming out in september yes, early september called my mind is a prison yeah okay, uh, which, uh, which is just really about you know, it's what it sounds like, just like anxiety.

Speaker 2: 49:00

Basically it's about anxiety and um and my geo. I have something coming out august 8th called I will be your home, and actually that is mainly about. It's a song I wrote for my wife when her because her great aunt was her basically like her parent, and when her great aunt died, I wrote that song for her, and this is before we were even dating. I've known my wife since we were nine and 10. So we've known each other our whole lives. Oh wow.

Speaker 1: 49:29

So you know, she really likes you then.

Speaker 2: 49:33

If she's known you, then if she's not, yeah or or. She's a phenomenal actor, man phenomenal.

Speaker 2: 49:37

You know she deserves, I deserve to be fooled at that point but I wrote that, I wrote that one for her and it fits. It fits, uh, for my daughter too and um, and it even, uh, it even works as like, like, basically like god telling you I'll be your home yeah, his name is so I'll be your home. So it worked. I think it worked for the mike geo stuff to, to put that one out. But then the rest of the stuff is uh, it's like ccm pretty much okay, now, when you guys do, you guys do collaborations with other bands.

Speaker 1: 50:10

Have you ever done it before? Like, didn't you mention another rapper that was on a song of yours, or was that the rapper?

Speaker 2: 50:17

That's on Saints in Exile. We had on my Dead End. We had a rapper named, a Christian rapper named Cut Right. We also had we had a few people on that one actually, but he was like the main one we had some people singing back up Genie Ortega, who's a um an artist, um this guy named jericho, he's another, he, these are, and these are all christian artists. By the way, okay, jericho, uh, this guy um luke demars, I think his last name is, I hope I hope I didn't butcher that he's. He's actually a? Um, a worship leader. He may be a pastor too. It's the rapper who knows him, so I don't know him very well gotcha and I think that's.

Speaker 2: 51:00

I think that's everyone that was on there do you do?

Speaker 1: 51:03

you have your own youtube channel as well, with just like you, with your stuff yeah, it's mike chio music okay, um, so how many songs do you have out, or does your band have out the band?

Speaker 2: 51:17

has three three and my and the mike geo one has maybe seven, six, seven, eight, probably seven or eight now.

Speaker 1: 51:26

Do any of these songs like? When I had songs, there was like one particular song that I put out on Apple that was like on iTunes. That was like that was if you heard that song, you heard my heart. Like that was how I was really feeling, like that was me and that in that time of my life. Is there a song with the band or the song like you personally, that like if you could say, like this right here, this was not a topical song, this was not a general season, this right here speaks to the heart of the band. Or this song is like this is Mike Geo in transition, or whatever. Is there any songs that are like that that you can think of off the top of your head?

Speaker 2: 52:10

Yeah, I would say there's one by a Mike Geo, one called Be Refined, that really and it caused a bunch of controversy, the song, but that was one where what I wrote I really, really felt when I wrote it.

Speaker 1: 52:27

What was some of the controversy over?

Speaker 2: 52:31

Well, so first I'll tell you the short side so you can actually see from their point of view, and then I'll explain the context of the song, the rest of the lyrics. So in the chorus it says sometimes church can feel so phony, like if you're not happy, you're not holy. Makes you feel like you're losing faith, but like the prodigal you'll find if you're not broken, makes you feel like you're losing faith, but like the prodigal, you'll find if you're not broken, you can't be refined. And so basically I like it, thank you. What the what it's supposed to mean? Is that like you feel, like you have to hide how you feel, not because people are forcing you to, but you feel like you have to as a Christian.

Speaker 2: 53:13

And especially because I was a worship leader at the church I was at and I had a lot going on In the late 2022,. My grandmother passed away Now she was 93, but still was hard. My wife's uncle died like a month before that and then my grandfather died two months three months after my grandmother this is my grandfather on the other side of the family, though um and then my wife was pregnant and she had a miscarriage right after that. So I was kind of like I was in a really bad head space and I actually I went through my notes I I one point I wrote I was apparently I don't even remember this I was praying to god when I would go to bed. Like god, can you just, like you know, just like I don't want to wake up, like could you do me, do this for me?

Speaker 2: 54:04

type of thing, which is a really crazy thing to think. But I mean elijah, you know, also prayed for that.

Speaker 1: 54:11

So I don't feel totally crazy. People forget that all the time, like just because you have doubts or questions, like god is big enough to receive those and hear those and love you through it. Like, like you've seen online, church people are the quickest people. Or say church people, they're the quickest people to like rip in, we eat our own.

Speaker 2: 54:34

Like that. And oh yeah, and that's what happened when I put this and I actually I showed the song to a lot of people. I showed it to a pastor that I'm very close with, who knows, like my pastor, my former pastor at that church and everything, and you know, no one had a problem with it, whatever. And when it came out, the pastor of that church was insistent it was about him and the church that that lyric was like a shot at them. And the thing is is I did have a lot of issues with them, but the song had nothing to do with it and I didn't even make him really aware that I had all these issues.

Speaker 2: 55:17

But regardless, you know, apparently he said the pastor told the elder that there was a big thing at the Bible study where people were like freaking out about the song. Now, I know the people who go to the Bible study, so when I, when I hear this, I'm like well, I'm going to ask them. Yeah, and everybody said that there was nothing mentioned. There was no song was never mentioned. So the only thing I could think of is that he just said it.

Speaker 2: 55:46

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:48

Also known as lying.

Speaker 2: 55:49

Yeah, so that happened and then, and then he was also because I was making content back then that was like, just because you're depressed doesn't mean that, um, you don't have enough faith and stuff like that, to go with the song. Because in that in that church there was a vibe of that and even would go up and give sermons that said, if you feel like you need therapy, jesus and therapy, you don't trust jesus enough. Like they didn't really have a very that's dumb, yeah, that's.

Speaker 1: 56:25

And in fact, what's really?

Speaker 2: 56:27

what's really funny uh, if I don't know if I would call it funny is that the assistant pastor and his wife are therapists and they even wear shirts that say Therapy and Jesus, and then he's saying this in front of her. I'm like huh.

Speaker 1: 56:46

So self-unaware.

Speaker 2: 56:47

He didn't like what I said.

Speaker 2: 56:50

it's so self-unaware they have no clue, like just talking out of their yeah, well, he's, you know, and that's why it's, you know, your assistant pastor is, is a therapist and he's and they wear these the hoodies sometimes and then you're making this comment that you can't have therapy. And, by the way, I first he asked me in private about my therapist. Oh, could you give me his number? So apparently he believes in it. But publicly, publicly, he did it. And so I don't, I don't know. I told him I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have mentioned that. But um, back then, but too late, the statute of limitations.

Speaker 1: 57:29

I guess it was one of those where it's like it's a good saying and it sounds good from the pulpit, but one of those things that like, if you think about it, it's really dumb, like that doesn't even make sense.

Speaker 2: 57:40

Well, we've had conversations, he does, you know. I even said he told me well, if you broke your leg in the middle of the desert, what are you going to do? You can only pray. And we're talking in relation to mental health and I'm like, but we're not in the desert. It's not the same thing. We're not in the desert. I'm like, yeah, if we were in the, if we were on mars somehow and there was no one around, yes, we would be down to prayer for sure. But here on earth, if you break your foot, here on earth, if you break your foot, god has made people doctors and given us blessings of medicine to help, so why would you ignore it? Yeah, that was an interesting conversation.

Speaker 1: 58:25

So we've touched on it a little bit. So where do you find yourself right, like your spiritual walk? You find yourself right, like your spiritual walk, like I know you've you've publicly said you've you've had some church or bad experiences and and like are you currently going to a church regularly? Have you found a healthy body to be part of or are you still searching?

Speaker 2: 58:44

you know, honestly, yeah, honestly, it's very hard to. So there was a place over here and I really like the people and I like the pastor actually, but two weeks after going very quickly, oh, maybe you could join the worship team, and they say no pressure, but it felt like I'm getting sucked in too fast here.

Speaker 2: 59:04

Yeah and I just got out of the other one where I really loved I still love the people that went there and the church doesn't exist anymore, that old church anyway. But I love the people that went there and the church doesn't exist anymore, that old church anyway. But I love the people that went there and it's just like it feels like when it's like if you were in a relationship and you break up and then you meet someone else and they're like, hey, let's go get married and you're like, oh, wait a minute, I just met you. I don't even know your name yet. Know, that's, that's, that's how it feels.

Speaker 2: 59:36

And so it's been very, it's very difficult, very difficult for me. And then, of course, once the baby came, um, it's. You know it's been hard to. You know it's it's my fault for not going so much, but it's been very hard, like it to come back from what I went through because so much happened. I mean even stuff that happened that I didn't put up and I can't, I wouldn't even talk about, because it's not even about me, it's about other people. That's just so messed up where it's just like it would be very hard for me, it's very hard for me to trust and and get close to people when, because even after I left, it's like people didn't.

Speaker 2: 1:00:16

You know there's people that reached, that kept in contact, but a lot didn't, um, and I don't know what was said, because in that cult, in the church culture there, if you left and went to another church or you left in general, you were not talked well about at all. So and I never told anyone really what happened. I told tiktok like a year later. I told them the parts of it. But so my, my church journey is kind of fractured.

Speaker 2: 1:00:50

Still, my spiritual journey is fractured, um, but I'm very aware that it's fractured in a way that is going to, that is building to a stronger um connection. But the thing is I, my relationship with, uh, god happened on its own before I started going to that church and had it not, and it happened through the church. I don't know what would, I don't know what my stance like, I don't know how I would have came out the other end of it. And that's what scares not me, but scares me for other people that if they go into a situation that turns sour but like the foundation of their relationship with God was, based in that place.

Speaker 2: 1:01:38

Yeah, what happens to them?

Speaker 1: 1:01:40

Yeah, we see that a lot around here in East Texas. Like everybody thinks, if they go to church, or because their mom and dad went to this church, or the grandparents went to a church, like they think that they are Christian. Like everybody automatically assumes, oh, if you to this church, or the grandparents went to a church, like they think that they are Christian. Like they automatically, everybody automatically assumes, oh, if you go to church, all you have to do is go to church, pay your tithes, serve in the church, like let's get you serving somewhere. And those things are good, but they are not necessary for salvation. And this I tell my people this all the time. We have churches full of weak Christians because they're built, their Christianity, their relationship with God, is built on a person or an organization or a building, and so if that is excluded from life now, their Christian walk is unstable. Because it was built on faulty pretenses and sand, like it was not built on Christ's solid rock. It was built on a person Like we're.

Speaker 1: 1:02:34

I come from a church that we believe. Lay hands on the sick, watch them recover. You know, as James tells us to do. We have altar call for salvation every single Sunday, but I have structured my church to where, when we have altar time, I have people from the audience that I know have prayer lives, that read the word, that are mature Christians. Like that's actually the mission and vision of my church is spiritual maturity, like bringing spiritual maturity back to God's house again so we can disagree and still love each other. We can, you know, be in different walks of life and different backgrounds and everything, but still coexist as the body of Christ and be the body of Christ to the community. And when we get healthy inside, we can be healthy outside. And so I have people selected that when I give a cue for salvation or whatever, if somebody is sick and you need prayer for healing in your body, these people come up and they pray for people. Sometimes I do pray for them if I feel like I'm supposed to, but I don't want them to come to get prayer from a person. I want them to come and the body do what the body's supposed to do To me. That's healthier because they're not depending on a person or an organization.

Speaker 1: 1:03:51

We need to be biblically sound and have biblical literacy so that we can have a full understanding of God and what the church should look like and not what we create it and want it to be. Or what a denomination says and we are a part of a denomination, but the Bible to me comes first, not a denomination says and we are a part of a denomination, but like, the bible to me comes first, not denomination. Like the denomination to me is a a good barometer and it helps keep things accountable because we have somebody that we actually answer to and but we answer to god first and denomination second. So, yeah, I fully agree with your. Everything you said is 100% true. Like there are people that will leave churches if there's a pastor change or a worship leader change or a youth pastor change. And like, if God led you somewhere, should you not wait for the leading of the Lord to make you or to position you in a different place instead of preference? That's just my personal two cents.

Speaker 2: 1:04:57

Yeah, and you know, that's the thing. When I was there, I really felt like I started questioning if I should stay around early 2023. And I say early 2024 because I'm like I just don't know if God wants me to leave. I just wasn't sure, I just don't know, I didn't feel like I was getting an answer. Um, and it wasn't. It wasn't until, like, things hit the fan.

Speaker 2: 1:05:21

But I will tell you, if I did leave, nothing to do with the church, but there are things that I was around for that, positively, I feel, helped other people. It has nothing to do with the church, though, but had I left, I don't know if I would have been, but after those things it felt like it's time, it was time to go. It just it took a long time. I just I didn't want to do, I didn't want to make it. I don't like making decisions based off of emotion, one being because in the morning. In the morning, I may be like why am I even? Why am I doing that? Like I like music, I may say why am I doing music? What's the point? Like nobody, like nobody's listening, and then at night, I could feel good and I'm like inspired to write.

Speaker 2: 1:06:08

It's like same exact day but just different shifts same day. It depends. Maybe I didn't get enough, you know. You know I drank some extra caffeine and now I feel good.

Speaker 1: 1:06:17

So I don't like making emotional decisions and so it sometimes takes me, if I don't hear something that's obvious, takes me a while to we did the same thing, but because we went from that you know I was talking to you about, uh, the tyler is a local place about an hour from here. I worked there almost every day and then, but we lived over there on Tyler and we moved to long view in actually 2020, uh, in July of 2020. And we made that the church switch and it wasn't that where we came from was unhealthy, but we knew me and my wife, we knew that God was calling us somewhere else, but we didn't know where yet. And so in like 2019, the guy that was the pastor over here in Longview, the church we're at now, he called me and he said, hey, uh, I've built this church back up. It was all. It was almost dead and you know, people stopped coming, but we're building a new building this year. We just built a new building. I want you to come over as the worship leader and the associate pastor, let the people get used to you, and then, uh, and then we'll, we'll make the transition. The board members are on board, you know all this stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:07:29

And so that was 2019, almost a full year. I did not hear anything from him and I'm like Lord, did we like? Like we. We said, yes, we were, we knew God wanted us to go there. But it like God didn't release us from that place yet. And it wasn't until a year later that we got the phone call Okay, we're ready now for you to come over and things are as they should be.

Speaker 1: 1:07:52

And I'm like but for that year I was not happy where we were, my wife wasn't happy, and it's not that it was a bad place, it was just like we knew it was time to go. And so I'm one of those that I just don't sit Like I gotta be like, if it's time to go, let's go, let's get it done. And so I was getting antsy and I was like, did we hear wrong? Like did God actually want us to go there? I'm questioning like all the answers I already had. But it was just because God was making me sit there for a minute and be patient and wait on him for him to do the release and not me to try to rush. But when it was time, everything went completely smooth. It was like boom, boom, boom. One thing after another and it was God's timing and it was perfect.

Speaker 2: 1:08:35

That's a really good point to make, because you know what A lot of people, including myself, if we feel our natural instinct is to do to get the result. And yeah, sometimes God says yeah, says yeah. You gotta like, look at david man, it's like your anointed king and he's like, yeah, maybe he's like yeah, fantastic. But yeah, imagine if it's like your anointed king. But first of all, if it was me, yeah I wouldn't have made. I wouldn't have made it to king okay I would have.

Speaker 2: 1:09:06

I would have given up. Yeah, I mean, you got soul chasing you. You're out in the, you're out there pretending that you have something wrong with you so you don't get killed. What an insane story. And what was it like?

Speaker 2: 1:09:18

maybe 10 years, 15 years, I don't know and then finally finally, uh, so it's like, yeah, sometimes god has a plan and he and he makes you aware of it, but it is very easy to want to put in your own hands which David did not do. He would not kill Saul, he, he, he still respected that Saul was King.

Speaker 1: 1:09:44

And which is hard to do, especially because he knew the position Saul was in was actually rightfully from the prophet. He was in order to take that position and yet he didn't like force his way into it. He let God orchestrate it, which, yes, that whole story is just crazy like I don't think I if I'm, if I'm even making it to the part where David had the opportunity to kill Saul David. David was a warrior, he knew how to fight. He killed Goliath already. This is down the line of his story. He's not a young boy anymore, now he's a man. I don't know if I would have the restraint to, especially in that day and time, to not kill him. He is literally seeking to kill me.

Speaker 2: 1:10:26

Yeah, I mean, he could have done it, he would have succeeded in it. You know, even Joseph, it's like he has these dreams and the brothers you know sell him away and he goes through all this stuff and then he gets accused of hitting on. Um, I don't forget if it's the Pharaoh's wife or someone Potiphar's wife.

Speaker 1: 1:10:47

I think he's like the firsthand man or something to Pharaoh.

Speaker 2: 1:10:50

He was up in prison. So he's like I mean this is ridiculous, like I'm done.

Speaker 1: 1:10:56

Forget it For doing the right thing.

Speaker 2: 1:10:58

Like forget it. Meanwhile he winds up saving his whole family. You know, in the end it took so long, but it all came full circle. It's really hard in between to function. I would say.

Speaker 1: 1:11:12

Yeah, I have to constantly remind myself, like if I'm ever in a position, like I was in in that full year, to not rush Because, like Abraham and his wife Sarah, they were promised a son, they were promised that in their late age. I mess with some of the older people in my church and I'm like, hey, we'll pray for you that that God will give you a child, and like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't want that. Hey, abraham and Sarah, right, and they're like no, no, no, no, no, I don't want. I'm good. But like he tried to do it on his own and he messed up big time and there was repercussions and conflict that he, if he would have just waited on God, everything would have been all right.

Speaker 2: 1:11:54

That's a great point. Waiting is terrible, a hundred percent. Even waiting for food at a diner Right.

Speaker 1: 1:12:01

That's why fast food is so like the obvious choice most of the time, because we want it now, we want it quick.

Speaker 2: 1:12:08

Although it's not always fast, sometimes I'm waiting there 15 minutes.

Speaker 1: 1:12:18

Yeah, do y'all have Chick-fil-a in new york? We do. Is it as fast? Around here chick-fil-a is fast. It's like if you want fast food and they get fast, like they do the line quick. Is it that good up there?

Speaker 2: 1:12:23

yeah, it's like, it's like average, it's like it's not, it's not like um, you order it and then it's out. I mean you, you'll wait in maybe like five minutes, which isn't bad at all. So I get the grilled chicken there. I like it a lot.

Speaker 1: 1:12:33

Yeah, it's God's chicken, right? Yeah, you know I I didn't realize one time I pulled into their parking lot. I was going to after Sunday service and I pulled in. I'm like I've never been more disappointed that somebody was closed on a Sunday because I I was ready for it.

Speaker 2: 1:12:50

It's happened to me. Yeah, it's happened to me so well.

Speaker 1: 1:12:55

Is there anything else you'd like to share as far as your story, or anything you'd like the listeners to know about your vision and and your uh, your music?

Speaker 2: 1:13:06

always the worst part, because I never know what to say. Um, no, I mean, I'm just, at the end of the day, trying to go wherever God is leading me and it's very hard. It's hard to know Sometimes. It's hard to know where he's leading you because it doesn't always look the way you thought it would be. It probably doesn't usually look the way you thought it would be, so it's very hard. So I always, you know, I'll say my thing is to always pray God. Wherever you want me to go, let the doors open there, and wherever you, don't let them be impossible, even if it's what I want, which is a hard, which is, I mean, you know you can, sometimes you can cringe when you pray that.

Speaker 2: 1:13:50

But, like, at the end of the day, that's what, that's what matters at the end of the day and yeah, I'm just trying my best. I got you know, I got new music coming out from both sides and hey, if you have a, if you have problem or if you had a failure in church, it does not reflect god and what he wants from you and there is something he will, could use in that yeah to bring something out of you you didn't know you had yeah, I think that's a good zoom in on maturity Like

Speaker 1: 1:14:45

it's not until we have to do things ourselves and we have to make decisions the hard decisions or the decision just to highlights, and, uh, I'm very excited to see, uh, what's next in the chapter of you and your band. Like I was and I hope you don't take this wrong but I was so impressed when I, like went on your youtube channel I'm like the I was being able to listen to the whole songs. I'm like this is like this is good stuff. Like I sent it to a few people so you may get a few more subscribers on there Hopefully you will after this video comes out too but you, you guys got the stuff. Like you guys are actually talented.

Speaker 1: 1:15:21

I really like I enjoyed your music, so I'm excited about where y'all are going to go and and and blow up and, and then I'll do anything I can to help you along the way. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 1:15:33

We'll do this again sometime.

Speaker 1: 1:15:38

Yeah, that'd be awesome. And you know what? Like apologetics, I guarantee you you can probably do your own thing and teach the Bible as you go through it.

Speaker 2: 1:15:41

You know I I'll. I'll name drop just a couple of these guys I like, in case anyone else wants to look them out.

Speaker 1: 1:15:47

Um well, it's the first one that comes to mind is jay warner wallace.

Speaker 2: 1:15:54

You ever hear of him? He does something called cold case christianity.

Speaker 1: 1:15:56

Oh, yes, okay, yes, yeah fantastic, um, you've got.

Speaker 2: 1:16:01

I mean, obviously the guy, uh, rabbi, he's had some issues, but yeah he's. I forget his last name, but he's really good, now was he the one that?

Speaker 1: 1:16:09

was he the one that died just recent? He did die, yeah, yeah, that's yeah, because didn't it come out after he had died? Maybe his controversy? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 1:16:18

I think so actually. Yeah, the guy was brilliant. Yeah, there's um, oh man, what's the guy's name? It's? It's my favorite one too. I can't remember his name, the the turk, do you know? I know, I know him too, not personally, but I know who he is, you know, I know I know him too, not personally, but I know who he is. You know, that's cool. No, no, no, no, um, oh man, uh, william Lane Craig.

Speaker 1: 1:16:39

Oh yeah, dude's phenomenal. He's got a lot of good books too.

Speaker 2: 1:16:43

Oh yeah, I can go on all day about it, so I'll leave it One of the top ones, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:16:49

Well, thank you so much. And for everybody who is listening or watching, if you're on YouTube or anywhere you listen to podcasts, all the links to Mike's YouTube channel for the band his TikTok, and are you on Instagram and stuff like that too? Do you kind of all the social media stuff?

Speaker 2: 1:17:07

Yeah, it's all the same. So for me it's Mike Geo Music, G-E-O music everywhere, and for the band it's all the same. So it's for me it's mike geo music, geo music everywhere, and for the band it's saints in exile band okay, awesome.

Speaker 1: 1:17:18

So all those links will be down below. Thank you so much for listening to another episode and interview on faith and failures and we will see you next time.

Speaker 2: 1:17:26

God bless you faith and failures podcast.