Can historical accuracy and atheism find common ground when discussing the figure of Jesus? Join our riveting exchange as we dissect Bill Maher's atheistic assertions with a robust array of scholarly perspectives, including the critical views from the YouTube channel "What Do You Mean," and the well-founded opinions of atheist scholars like Bart Ehrman. We also bring to the table Ben Shapiro's unique Jewish take on the non-divinity of Jesus, navigating the intricate line between accepting Jesus as a historical figure and embracing his divinity and miracles. Expect an enlightening contrast of viewpoints that not only challenges skepticism but also enriches our understanding of religious history.
Venture further with us as we sift through the contributions of St. Paul to the New Testament and the veracity of biblical narratives. Paul's letters, often mistaken for lacking biographical detail, actually serve as pivotal guidance for early Christians, not as a chronicle of Jesus's life. By unpacking these early texts, we reaffirm the authenticity of the New Testament and the significance of Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection to Christian faith. Our exploration doesn't end at academia—we invite you to experience a personal odyssey. Whether you're a believer or not, we encourage engaging with the Bible and seeking insight through prayer, as it might just catalyze profound inner growth and a more defined purpose in life.
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Speaker 1:
Faith and Failure's podcast.
Speaker 2:
All right, so moving on. So I don't know if you've heard of the. He's not a podcaster. I think he has a podcast, but he is a a a TV show host. His name is Bill Maher. He is one of the most outspoken outright in your face atheist, calling people of religion, and especially the Christian faith, stupid. So the topic of today is talking about atheists. So let's see when he's pressed on his issues, when he's pressed on what he believes, when he's pressed on why he thinks this way, let's see what he actually can come up with. So I've referenced this channel multiple times on my channel, a TV show called what Do you Mean, one of my favorite YouTube channels, probably of all time. So let's watch this together and see what he comes up with If you are stupid and dangerous.
Speaker 1:
It's ironic we're discussing this has been Shapiro's song Facts has been trending number one on Apple Music because Bill Maher, a vocal atheist, recently released a clip showing how he reacts when presented with facts about the evidence for Jesus. Now, given that Bill claims that his loyalty is only to the truth, my only loyalty always is to the truth. Let's see how he responds when given facts about Jesus. I believe in Jesus, by the way. We'll talk about that, oh.
Speaker 4:
I didn't. I went to Catholic school my whole life. But after reading this book Case for Christ by Lee Schraubel, the factual evidence that he existed is kind of overwhelming.
Speaker 3:
I'd like to see that, because the factual evidence that he existed has always been underwhelming.
Speaker 1:
And we're already off to a bad start. Bill Maher claiming that the evidence for the existence of Jesus is underwhelming shows that he just isn't familiar with the evidence. Jesus's existence is a historical fact that virtually every scholar, whether religious or secular, agrees on, and in the words of the number one rapper in the world right now I think that Bill just needs to. Let's look at the stats. The truth is, we have more historical sources on Jesus than any other figure in ancient antiquity, and even Wikipedia will tell you that. We have several non-Christian sources during the time that corroborate his existence, such as Tacitus, josephus and Plainty the Younger. It's the actual facts that prompted the most prominent atheists that's working as a New Testament scholar to say this about Bill's views.
Speaker 4:
There is a lot of evidence. I mean there is so much evidence that it is not.
Speaker 2:
I mean, I know in the crowd you Do, you see how he's like stumbling over Because he's like a pronounced atheist and he's kind of backtracking right now publicly. So he's like you know well, we did good out there today. It's kind of funny to watch him stumble. Hold on, I want to watch it again. There is a lot of evidence.
Speaker 4:
I mean there is so much evidence that it is not. I mean I know in the crowds you all run around with it's commonly thought that Jesus did not exist. Let me tell you, once you get outside of your conclave there's nobody who I mean. This is not even an issue for scholars of antiquity. There is no scholar in any college or university.
Speaker 2:
That's a big statement coming from a well-known out there atheist. That's Bart Arman is like one of the top atheists. That is straight up Like. He is known in the community pretty much by everybody. He's like a household name in the atheist community.
Speaker 4:
Diversity in the Western world. Who teaches classics, ancient history, New Testament, early Christianity, any related field? Who doubts that Jesus existed?
Speaker 1:
So if Bill wants to call the evidence for the existence of Jesus underwhelming, then that's a problem with his historical criteria. Not the evidence, but what? Until you hear what he says next.
Speaker 4:
If I told you okay, if I told you factual evidence about Alexander the Great, you would believe me.
Speaker 3:
Okay, but even still it's a silly point, because who cares if Jesus lived, it's whether he's then died and was reborn and is up in heaven with his father. Who's really him? That's the part where the rubber meets the road. Maybe he existed? I agree that's absolutely possible.
Speaker 1:
He may have existed, so seemingly being aware that his he went back on his word Position goes against all of the actual facts, bill decides to concede the point that maybe Jesus existed. All right, now hold on, ben, don't get too excited. He grants this, but says that it's a moot point anyway, because it doesn't mean that he performed miracles or was raised from the dead. Hmm, yeah, I know, buddy, now We'll come back to this point.
Speaker 2:
But first let's hear, there's been Shapiro again. What else bills which? If you don't know, if you're watching this live right now, ben Shapiro is a Jew and he is the, the historical Jew. So they, they do not believe that Jesus came. He doesn't have deity. He may have been a teacher, but he was not who he said he was, which is why you know they crucified him, because he said he was God, that if you've seen me, you've seen the father. So he's, he's claiming to be a From God, he is God and they crucified him. But Ben Shapiro does not believe that at all. Except this is where it's a blind spot, or you have a selective, selective dumbness. I don't know what else we call it. Because he, he knows Like, he's smart enough to know the facts, to be able to follow the logic, follow the historical documents, and he, for some reason, he will not admit to it says I'm gonna have to bust your bubble now, because here here's, I have to spit a couple of facts at you that are kind of under.
Speaker 3:
Okay, there's only two sources in the Bible. There's the four Gospels Matthew, mark, luke and John. Okay, there's also another guy, joseph is who wasn't accepted, but not in the Bible. Okay, okay, but the Bible is itself an anthology. There they found some few decades ago the Dead Sea Scrolls, right, which are other books that were just basically edited out. So right away we know a person Decided what constituted the Bible and just some stuff wound up on the cutting room floor, dude.
Speaker 1:
Just just just dude, all right. So, as you just heard, bill retreats from saying that Jesus didn't exist and to arguments that the gospel accounts of Jesus were legends that were Invented several centuries after Jesus's death. But once again, even though he presents this as facts, everything that he's saying is actually in spite of the actual facts. He says that there's only two sources for the Bible which he's wrong about, by the way but he identifies those two sources as the gospel authors and Paul, but doesn't seem to realize that the gospel writers nor Paul are even relevant to the Dead Sea Scrolls facts. The writings of Paul and the gospel writers were for the New Testament, but the Dead Sea Scrolls didn't even include the New Testament at all. And, for context, the Dead Sea Scrolls were scrolls that were found in the Kumbh Rang caves Alongside of the Dead Sea that were previously untouched for thousands of years and, contrary to Bill's claims, the scrolls in the cave only Included Old Testament books, which didn't include any extra biblical books from the old or the New Testament.
Speaker 1:
Now, yes, it's true that there were some non biblical books that were found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, but that's only because the Dead Sea Scrolls were an ancient library of different kinds of books and different kinds of pieces of literature. There's simply no evidence that any of the non biblical books that were found were ever viewed as scripture. Ain't that right, ben? That's right, the shizzle. So it appears that once again, bill is claiming to appeal to facts without knowing, or seemingly, understanding, the facts at all, leaving Ben disappointed. Now, these type of errors going for a while, by the way, like when he talks about how Matthew, mark, luke and John weren't contemporaries of Jesus to the Council of Nicaea, having something to do with the formation of the Bible, and so on. But Perhaps the most egregious and possibly the strangest of all of the facts that he got wrong is the next one, which is really bad news for Bill because, once corrected, it undermines all of his arguments that he gave against Jesus for the entire podcast episode. Take a listen.
Speaker 3:
St Paul is the other source of the Bible. Yes, there's Mark, matthew, luke and John. I said the two names out of order because that's the order in the Bible. The first Gospel mark is 70 AD. Jesus dies in 33, so that's 40 years, almost after he died. Okay, so not contemporaries. Paul Comes before the Gospel writers. He's writing around the year 50, in the 50s. Okay, so he's much closer to Jesus's time. So you'd think he would know more about Jesus than the people who came later. But actually St Paul knows almost nothing about Jesus. He barely conceives of him as something that as a person who lived on earth. There's no details about his life like they are in the Gospels, so the people who came later know more than the person who wrote earlier. Just some food for thought.
Speaker 2:
Paul aka Saul knows that Jesus existed. Right, that's like. That's like somebody saying that if I write a book, I should be able to write the life story of someone who lives, even someone who's well known in the area. I should be able to write the life story of people in Tyler, texas. Now, that does not make any sense at all, because how in the world, even if they are a more famous person, every person in Tyler, in that region, can know them, but I could not have any idea who they are because of what I'm doing over here. That doesn't even add up in logic. I mean, I thought it was a spacebar.
Speaker 3:
He talks about it. He talks about it. I'm saying he conceives him as a Godhead. He doesn't have this. It's not the narrative that's in the Gospels.
Speaker 2:
Of Jesus went around and he did miracles, because that was already written, like that wasn't the purpose of Paul's writings.
Speaker 3:
He does stuff and everybody loved him and he gets quoted a lot. He makes speeches. Blessed are the meek. He has adventures, he goes into the desert. It's a whole thing, but what about? And then at the end it's a whole drama with. You know, he's crucified. No, paul doesn't know any of this. All the stuff that the Gospel writers obsess about and that are his biography.
Speaker 1:
Okay. So first off, what's interesting about this objection is that Bill actually answered his own objection when he said that Paul doesn't mention all the stuff that the other Gospel writers obsess about in their biographies Biographies the Gospel writers are writing biographies, not Paul. Paul wasn't trying to give a historical account of Jesus's life, but instead he was writing to the churches that needed guidance and correction. So once you understand that, then you realize that it's really kind of silly to object to Christianity by pointing out how Paul didn't give a detailed account of Jesus's life, since he wasn't even trying to. This is a meritocracy right here. Secondly, and even worse, when Bill says that Paul didn't mention things like Jesus performing miracles or being crucified, he's wrong on that count as well. In fact, paul talks about Christ being crucified several times in the New Testament and even goes so far to say that he's determined to know nothing except for Jesus and him crucified. And when it comes to claims about Jesus's miracles, paul continuously talks about Jesus's greatest miracle, which is at the heart of Christianity the miracle of the resurrection. Paul mentions the resurrection of Jesus over a couple dozen times in the New Testament, quotes a creed in 1 Corinthians 15 and a hymn in Philippians 2 that he got from the early church was affirmed the resurrection and goes back to just months after Jesus's death.
Speaker 1:
So even if Bill were right that the Gospel writers and Paul didn't write about Jesus's miracles until decades after Jesus's death, it really wouldn't matter, since we know for a fact that the first Christians believed in the crucifixion and the miracle of the resurrection after Jesus's death, and that fact alone is enough to completely disprove Bill's entire theories of Jesus not existing and the Gospel accounts of Jesus's life being legends. Now I know that Bill doesn't particularly like the actual, true facts about Jesus, but in the words of the hottest MC out right now Now. So much more could be said about all of the points that Bill brought up in that interview, but honestly I thought that the video would be too dry and boring to respond to all of the countless other things that he got wrong in the video. So I went ahead and link some other videos down below that cover some of the other errors that he made, if you want to go ahead and learn more.
Speaker 2:
So that right there is usually like Bill Maher, he usually has a kind of how Ben Shapiro does when you talk about the resurrection of Jesus, kind of like. That doesn't really interest me. So the presupposition that they have in their mind and you could say that about believers too we come from a place of faith. We come from a place of believing that the Word of God is infallible, that it is from God, god breathed, inspired by the Holy Spirit. So you can say the same thing about us. But we are. I am I'm not going to say about anybody else, I am a measurement, I am a testimony of the Bible being true, that the Bible being what it says, it is that the things inside of there, whether you believe in God or not, like you can live. Joe Rogan even said this that you can live your life according to the Bible and have a much more fulfilled and sustainable happiness than you would without it. So my challenge to you is, if you don't know God or you don't believe in God, start reading and just see what happens.
Speaker 2:
Something that happened to me was that once I began to read and get hungry for God's word, there was a spark of hunger that I had. I didn't even realize was there and it began to open up my spirit and drown out my flesh and it began to awaken the spirit man inside of me and I can't even describe to you the freedom it gave me once I understood, like it gave me purpose, how many people walk around in life just not even knowing what they're here for. The word of God will give you that direction. The word of God will give you that life in your life that you need. And I mean don't knock it till you try it. You know what I mean. Read the word, even if you don't believe. Read the word. And I challenge you, if you know God, if you don't know God, like you'll never have a deeper understanding until you say pray and say God, holy Spirit, reveal to me what you want me to see and get ready, because the ride is real.
Speaker 1:
IT'S structure right here at Nights and Tuesdays. Fox Nation. I'm getting pretty bad. I ain't clapping but I'm cheering.