Navigating the turbulent waters of love and faith, I once mistook my limited grasp for a full understanding, leading me down a path of confusion about love's true meaning. Our latest conversation takes us into the heart of this complexity, tackling the tricky distortions of the sacred text by some churches that mold scripture to validate sin, all under the banner of love. We dissect a provocative video that claims Jesus never condemned anyone for their sexual orientation or gender identity, and weigh the perspectives of creators like Original Mr. B, who offers counterarguments that challenge such assertions.
As the episode unfolds, we confront the often-cited but problematic phrase, "God loves the sinner but hates the sin," examining its implications on LGBTQ+ discussions within Christian circles. Our guest, Ellen Schleeman, helps us scrutinize the insidious nature of this well-intentioned yet harmful cliche, as it frequently translates to the LGBTQ+ community as a message of hate rather than love. We strive to extricate the authentic essence of love from the tangles of misinterpretation, redirecting our focus to the core of what love signifies in the realm of faith and righteousness, and proposing a more compassionate approach to presenting the gospel.
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Speaker 1:
I thought I'd love the girl when I really didn't understand what love was. I had a false sense or a false definition of what love was because of my very narrow and shallow understanding of what love actually was.
Speaker 3:
Faith and Failure's podcast.
Speaker 1:
That's just the facts. All right, now I was talking about speaking of truth. Now some of you, some of you may not understand how bad some churches have gotten. So I wanted to like kind of point out a little bit today on this video where this guy is using scripture to say that you can just be sinful however you want. Listen to this.
Speaker 3:
Jesus said you welcome people period. Jesus said you extend radical hospitality period. Jesus did not say one single word of condemnation about anyone based on sexual orientation or gender identity. In fact, the only mention Jesus really makes of it is this passage in Matthew. Maybe you're familiar with it. It's actually an affirmation. Now there we go. It's buried in ancient language and it's surrounded by this weird teaching about divorce, but what Jesus said is this Hold on.
Speaker 1:
He just said Jesus said this and it's surrounded by weird teaching, by divorce. So now he's saying what Jesus said was weird teaching. So he already, he already set the stage for what he actually believes is truth. It's obviously not what Jesus says. That, if you?
Speaker 3:
are unique and you have been a unique since birth. That was an ancient way of saying that if you differed from what was expected in terms of what we would call today sexual orientation or gender identity, that if you were a unique and you had been a unique from birth, that you were loved by God. Jesus said you love period.
Speaker 1:
Okay, so I'm going to do a quick search, right quick, because I think he's pulling from. Actually, let's watch this other video, see if this guy actually points it out. Hold on. Mark said Justice is turned back and righteous stands. I say, if it did not, truth is fallen in the street equity cannot enter.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. So let's say this this guy, what's his name? Original Mr B, I think it's his name. So this guy talks about apologetics and things. He's kind of a younger dude, but see if he addresses and says what scripture I was gonna look up.
Speaker 2:
This is, and you using the little loving face emoji shows me that you do not understand what love is. Consensual adults in a loving relationship is not a sin. People being their authentic selves, including the gender that they know themselves to be, is not a sin. If your religion says that it is, get a new religion.
Speaker 4:
I wanna offer a criticism to both the original comment and this creator's response to the comment. When it comes to the LGBT discussions we have many well-meaning Christians sometimes use an aphorism God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. Unfortunately, this cliche ends up creating a lot of confusion. My friend, ellen Schleeman points out that when Christians use this cliche, the only word people hear is the word hate. And because they believe being LGBT isn't merely what they do, but who they are, what they end up hearing is God hates me and you hate me. That's true. Not only. This slogan is intended to communicate compassion and hope for sinners, but it's not received that way. So let's drop the cliche and instead let's just present the gospel Well. I don't like the original comment. I think the creator's response is even worse.
Speaker 4:
This creator claims that the commenter doesn't understand what love is. After all, she says consensual adults in a loving relationship is not a sin and people being their authentic selves is not a sin. Of course, this is demonstrably false. Just visit a prison and you will find people who are being their authentic selves. Furthermore, we have explicit examples of consensual sexual activity that violates God's commands. When Paul found out that a man and his father's wife were in a sexual relationship, he didn't say well, as long as this is consensual adults in a loving relationship, it's not a sin. On the contrary, he pronounced judgment on them. Now don't miss this. The arrogant Corinthian church thought they were being loving towards the couple by tolerating their consensual relationship. The problem is, they didn't understand what real love looks like.
Speaker 4:
In the same letter, paul says love does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. When we rejoice and affirm wrongdoing, something God calls a sin, we keep people from repentance, and that's not loving, that's unloving. One way God communicates his love to you and me is by telling us that many of the things we want to do we shouldn't do. Because Jesus loved the woman caught in adultery, he said go and sin no more. Because Jesus loved the rich man, he told him to sell all that he had and give it to the poor. Because Jesus loved the lost Jewish people, he said unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins. Only God defines what love is. The apostle John writes and this is love that we walk in obedience to his commands. And he says by this we know that we love the children of God when we love God and obey his commandments. So we love others by keeping God's commands, not by rejecting them.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so that's what he does. He takes like the pin out, yeah, cast dead. And this is 100% true. Loving is not the same as condoning and agreeing with citizen. Wrong is wrong and a lot of people get that confused. They throw around. They throw around the word love, just like I did when I was a child I thought I loved a girl, when I really didn't understand what love was. I had a false sense or a false definition of what love was because of my very narrow and shallow understanding of what love actually was.
Speaker 1:
Love will make you tell somebody the truth, even when it hurts them a little bit. Love will help you or will bring you to a place of repentance. Because I love God so much for what he has done for me and just who he is, I will not turn to what I used to do, but I will repent and turn for my wicked ways". I think a lot of times in the New Testament when Jesus healed somebody, he would say go and send no more. And this place of gratitude and love because of what God just demonstrated in their life was a very real, intangible thing, like a lot of their lives were changed. Like a man who was blind now could see you understand their emifications of something like that in your life, changing and turning around, the layman who kept trying to get into the pool, but everybody would always beat him. When the angel will come and stir up the waters, like all of a sudden this man could walk, all of a sudden this man could go to work, all of a sudden this man can do what he never could have done in his life. And so God tells us that we are to repent and stop the way we are now. Give it all to him, let him wash it and he will bless it and give it back to us in a way that we never dreamed.
Speaker 1:
There's one more video from the same guy I wanna look at. Well, it's hold on, and this is talking about sin. Same kind of concept. Like you, look at this guy and you'll understand exactly what I'm talking about. Not trying to make fun, but there he is. That's the dude.
Speaker 5:
Well, it's a sin To who? It's a sin To who? To everyone. That's kinda how sins work, see. But that's not true. Sin is subjective. It says so in Romans 14, 14. In it Paul says I'm convinced, being fully persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself, but if someone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. So I say again for who? Cause it depends on the person.
Speaker 4:
This is what happens when you read a single verse without looking at the context. Well, we have a principle, don't we Never read a Bible verse? What that means is you always read the verses around the verse, the context. And when you read the context, you find out that Paul is specifically talking about eating food that is clean but that you think is unclean. See, on the one hand, there were Christians with weaker faith those are Paul's words who believed eating certain food was sinful. As a result, they passed judgment on those Christians who would eat those foods. On the other hand, there were Christians with stronger faith, like the apostle Paul, who knew all food is clean. But those stronger Christians were causing the weaker Christians to stumble into sin by getting them to do something that they believed was wrong. That's the context.
Speaker 4:
But this raised a question about the weaker Christians. How does doing something that's not sinful in itself become sinful if the person believes God prohibits it? Maybe an illustration will help. Imagine I, tim Barnett, believe it's a sin to go to the movie theater. Fyi, I actually met someone from a legalistic home who believed that.
Speaker 1:
Now if my dad used to. I don't know about necessarily a sin, but growing up as a kid we could not go to the movies. Do you remember a Robin Williams movie called Flubber? I was in hell at eight and my parents didn't even take me. It was a babysitter that took me with her husband and I kind of got in trouble because I went and then the next movie was and I don't even remember, but I was not allowed to go to the movies at all going up.
Speaker 4:
Now, if I believe God prohibits going to the movie theater and I go to the movie theater because my Christian friends are going, that would be sin. Why is it? Because all sin is really subjective? Of course not. It's because in that act my heart is set against God and it's objectively sinful to do something that you believe is prohibited by God. You don't have to believe something is sin for it to be sin. For example, you might not believe murder is sin, but that's and change the fact that murder is a sin. However, you do have to believe something that's not a sin is a sin for it to be sin.
Speaker 4:
You may need to listen to that sentence again, using Paul's example. If you believe in certain meat is a sin, even though it's not a sin, but you eat it anyways, then that is a sin. The problem is a sinful heart, not sinful food. That's why, concerning eating, paul says each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. If you're not convinced that it's okay to eat and you eat it anyways, you have sinned against God, paul says. But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats because the eating is not from faith, for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. Faith is a confidence that what you're doing is for the Lord. So if you think you're doing something against the Lord, it's not from faith, it's sin. This content creator thinks sin is subjective and that this verse proves it. Ironically, this passage teaches just the opposite.
Speaker 1:
He always puts it Well it's a sin, who he always puts the pain back there like bone done, told you. And so this is. This is something you need to understand as a Christian that as soon as someone says my truth, it no longer is true. Because because in the world we live in good, bad, our culture, civilization, whatever you want to slap on it we're living in God's world. He is the creator, he is also the, the ender, if he wants to be so. That should shake us, that should keep us humble, that should keep us chasing after him, because we want to please him, we desire to be in relationship with him, we desire to be close to him. So I had a couple more videos. We're gonna wrap it up now. I've been on here for, let's see, oh, almost two hours.
Speaker 1:
So Before we close out, you heard me talk about earlier about being having interviews. If you want to be interviewed, you can Comment on the YouTube channel, you can Instagram or Facebook. Also, we have how many 700 and something group members in the Facebook group we have is called faith and failures. It's a private group so people can ask questions, that kind of interact a privately. We have a guy that's been on the show before Caleb Gordon. He actually came and preached for me a couple months ago at my church. Hey comments on there a lot and stays up to date with everything. But if you ever want to be interviewed, we do have the capability to interview you from afar, so you don't have to be inside the studio or whatever I say. The studio it's like a bunch of lights and stuff that I put my living room.
Speaker 1:
But anyways, comment, email, faith and failures at Gmail. Also, one more time before you leave, make sure you subscribe, like this video, share the video. Those are free of charge. Also, too, if you do want to give one time or monthly, you can click the PayPal link below and follow through that little process, as well as If you shop on Amazon, which probably all of us do. I got a lot of faithful Amazon Heites and you can click the links below and it will bring you to Amazon and so that will be linked to me and they give me a little bit kickback for Advertising for them. So no extra cost to you. Greatly appreciate it. Thank y'all. I love y'all praying for you and I will see you next time. Hope you'll have a Merry Christmas.